a ? on Karma/Nirvana

[Caz namyaw]

Well many people from the monotheistic traditions will need a base on which they can feel comfortable as conditioning can make attachment to such ideals uncomfortable to part with thus it is better for a transferance to begin where the ideal is slowly and comfortably broken down with correct reasoning and logic cant expect to help people if we dont accept them for what they are (currently)

Very true -- which is why "I" refer such questions to Merton, Ford and olhers with a view that does not necessarily reflect my own. When I walked away from monotheism, I walked away and never looked back.

When it comes to the question of balancing monotheism and Buddhism, "my" experience may not be helpful to all who might ask about the subject. Thus I refer them to others who might be a tad more "gentle" in their approach to the subject.

Whether in clothes "off the rack" or approaches to dhamma, one size never fits all.

Namo Amitofo
- Fa Dao -

Perhapes refering them to some of the old debates in know in bodhisattvas guide to the way of life there is a section regarding ishvara ( the creator god ) and how the concept is out of whack.

[Caz namyaw]

I went a lecture by Osho once upon a time.

I understand the lecture lasted about an hour. My friend and I lasted about 15 minutes.

We found a nice little park about a block away from the lecture-hall and had a lovely afternoon.

Namo Aitofo
- Fa Dao -

was he disscussing plans of gassing people then to ?

I really don't know about that. I was initially put off by the phalanx of "souvenir stands" and high-pressure sales approaches a we entered the hall for a "free" lecture. It reminded me of a timeshare sales session where they rope you in with a "free" tour and then won't let you out until you buy something.

At that time I had book-studied Watts and DT Suzuki for about 10 years -- and the Osho approach made no sense in that context. Thus, my friend and I left. We bought frankfurters at a street stand, ate them in a little park nearby and had a lovely conversation.

Better dhamma eating franks in the park than what I saw in the beginnings of the lecture. Sometimes we learn more by "cutting class" than we learn by attending.

Namo Amitofo
- Fa Dao -

The worst thing about osho was he had a sort of respectablity, the dalai lama liked him there's a picture of them together of course im sure the DL wouldnt have accepted money from a terrorist if he knew what he was about to do, i suppose if such a person can fool someone like the DL then its no wonder why his plans went unstopped.

[Catmoon]

Perhapes refering them to some of the old debates in know in bodhisattvas guide to the way of life there is a section regarding ishvara ( the creator god ) and how the concept is out of whack.

Funny you should mention that, I was just reading those debates this afternoon. The whole chapter is thick with subtle points and statements that can be read completely wrong if the text is not followed very closely. Not what I'd throw at a beginner!

[Caz namyaw]

Perhapes refering them to some of the old debates in know in bodhisattvas guide to the way of life there is a section regarding ishvara ( the creator god ) and how the concept is out of whack.

Funny you should mention that, I was just reading those debates this afternoon. The whole chapter is thick with subtle points and statements that can be read completely wrong if the text is not followed very closely. Not what I'd throw at a beginner!

I ment is regards to the creator god if they are interested in why buddhism doesnt hold this view, bodhisattva's guide to the way of life should be read in conjunction with a commentary to highlight some of the hidden meanings

[FaDao]

I am of two minds about discussing Ishvara with newcomers. As has been stated, many of the points in that debate are very subtle. Additionally, the basis of the Ishvara concept is Hindu rather than Buddhist and there is already a lot of confusion in the western "spiritual world" that does not comprehend that Hindu and Buddhist teachings are quite different.

To fully understand these subtle differences, one really needs a fair historical understanding of both classical Hindu and Buddhist teachings. Such understanding can take years of study in and of itself.

For new practitioners in the "west", Merton and Ford have done creditable jobs of discussing the melding of western theism and Buddhist teachings. I don't agree with all of their points, but they do a creditable job of balancing the two views.

Namo Amitofo
- Fa Dao -

[Yeshe]

I am of two minds about discussing Ishvara with newcomers. As has been stated, many of the points in that debate are very subtle. Additionally, the basis of the Ishvara concept is Hindu rather than Buddhist and there is already a lot of confusion in the western "spiritual world" that does not comprehend that Hindu and Buddhist teachings are quite different.

To fully understand these subtle differences, one really needs a fair historical understanding of both classical Hindu and Buddhist teachings. Such understanding can take years of study in and of itself.

For new practitioners in the "west", Merton and Ford have done creditable jobs of discussing the melding of western theism and Buddhist teachings. I don't agree with all of their points, but they do a creditable job of balancing the two views.

Namo Amitofo
- Fa Dao -

I often observe new groups receiving their first lesson in Buddhadharma. It usually takes less than ten minutes before the teacher has mentioned a deity or a concept which is waaay beyond the students. It's damn difficult to avoid the 'jargon'. I believe a guy called Buddha was pretty good at it, though.

[FaDao]

If you study the wheat rather than the chaff it is easy to bake a quick loaf of bread.

Namo Amitofo
- Fa Dao -

[gotamo]

Hi,
the assumption that there is no god is not right. You should have red mor of the Pali-Canon.
Well the christian GOD has just another name there, he is called Brahma.
The Karma is just a record of your good and bad deeds. When your Karma wasn´t getting better in one life you just must do it again and again until you did enough good deeds to progress.
Buddhis teaching is just a tool to change one´s consciousness und then you have to go the way on
you own.
The four goals are: Listener to the message of the Elevatd One, returning only once again, you dont return any more, holyness.
love, pity and compassion

gotamo buddho

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